Giuliani Votes Stolen?
Though I'm not a Giuliani supporter I do support fair and open elections. The contact below was sent to me by Frank Gonzalez but originated from Blackboxvoting.org.
They pose some interesting questions for democracy supporters.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:04:35 -0600
From: bev@blackboxvoting.org
To: bev@blackboxvoting.org
Subject: [peoplecount] Eh? Republicans STILL haven't got results for 65 precincts.
It isn't even a skillful magic show.
The Republican caucuses usually take only half as long as the Democratic caucuses, due to simpler procedures. Yet the Republicans are lagging behind the Democrats now by over TEN HOURS in having all their results in.
Alert CSPAN watchers caught TV screen shots of Giuliani vote totals going down by a couple thousand votes midstream in, I believe it was, Linn County. As many of us know, vote totals that go DOWN during the middle of the count can be an error, but also can signal an election theft tactic whereby votes from a candidate finishing very low in the pack are skimmed off and given to a favored candidate higher in the pack.
And with the Republican race, I wouldn't look first at fraud in the number one position. I'd look for it in the area of repositioning candidates in the second through sixth spot.
The delay in results is a red flag. The vote totals going down during the count is a red flag. The failure to release county results in live time, as promised in a Republican
Party press release on Jan. 2, is a bad sign. The failure to release precinct totals at all is a corrupt procedure.
In addition: I'm trying to get information on whether the public was kicked out of the room during hand counting in all locations, or just some.
There is absolutely no reason to consider any of the Republican caucus results to be credible. I'm not saying they are wrong, I am saying the breakdown in checks and balances was stunning enough to call it not a magic show, but a bad magic show.
They pose some interesting questions for democracy supporters.
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:04:35 -0600
From: bev@blackboxvoting.org
To: bev@blackboxvoting.org
Subject: [peoplecount] Eh? Republicans STILL haven't got results for 65 precincts.
It isn't even a skillful magic show.
The Republican caucuses usually take only half as long as the Democratic caucuses, due to simpler procedures. Yet the Republicans are lagging behind the Democrats now by over TEN HOURS in having all their results in.
Alert CSPAN watchers caught TV screen shots of Giuliani vote totals going down by a couple thousand votes midstream in, I believe it was, Linn County. As many of us know, vote totals that go DOWN during the middle of the count can be an error, but also can signal an election theft tactic whereby votes from a candidate finishing very low in the pack are skimmed off and given to a favored candidate higher in the pack.
And with the Republican race, I wouldn't look first at fraud in the number one position. I'd look for it in the area of repositioning candidates in the second through sixth spot.
The delay in results is a red flag. The vote totals going down during the count is a red flag. The failure to release county results in live time, as promised in a Republican
Party press release on Jan. 2, is a bad sign. The failure to release precinct totals at all is a corrupt procedure.
In addition: I'm trying to get information on whether the public was kicked out of the room during hand counting in all locations, or just some.
There is absolutely no reason to consider any of the Republican caucus results to be credible. I'm not saying they are wrong, I am saying the breakdown in checks and balances was stunning enough to call it not a magic show, but a bad magic show.
posted by Tomás Estrada-Palma at
4:18 PM
7 Comments:
First of all this wasn't an election, it was caucus. This the counting of the ballots (which were nothing more than pieces of paper) is the responsibility of members of the party. It's a party activity. It wasn't very scientific. As demonstrated on C-SPAN, They hand count the votes for each candidate, put all the slips of paper in an envelope and write the totals for each candidate (in no particular order) on the outside of the envelope.
Secondly, Rudy Giuliani did not campaign in Iowa AT ALL. Rudy was polling low in the days leading up to the caucus.
Thirdly, Rudy himself didn't seem distressed with his poor showing in Iowa, probably because of number 2 above.
And lastly, just because a number appears on your TV screen (if it did appear) doesn't mean it's the correct number. The people who post the graphics on TV broadcasts have nothing to do with the caucus or the tallying of the votes. A simple keystroke mistake could create an error that had to be corrected later.
As a big believer in Ockham's Razor, I don't put a lot of stock into this theory.
Yeah all those thing the report said could be possible. Also I understand the concept of the caucus. I stated I support fair and open elections and caucuses are part of the election process. But since all politicians except Ron Paul swore an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution then immediately violated that oath it makes them liars. Sorry but I feel they are power hungry pigs who will break any rule to be in charge of the piggy bank. I don't trust them. It could be just errors. Of course I would have more faith if Americans were allowed to witness the counting of the votes along with the media. The Republicans said they would permit that but that did not happen in all cases Iowa. Why not?
Oh and another thing. At each caucus location, the number of votes for each candidate was read to the people who hung around for the announcement. If any Rudy supporter believed their man got scammed they could prove it by checking the officially reported results:
http://www.iowagop.net/
Oh by the way 10 minutes after I posted this report the US Republican Senatorial Committee paid my blog a visit. I just thought that interesting. Perhaps it means nothing. I can't say right now...maybe never.
Then why are 61 precints not given results yet?
Actually, only if you hung around and they gave results you would hear. That's why if votes were stolen it would make sense to steal them from Rudy with no Iowa organization to be a watchdog while Ron Paul supporters made damn sure they were there to the end. Ron Paul had ways to verify his votes would be counted but Rudy didn't. Could this mean fraud happened? I can't say. Trust but verify though. I don't want to see Rudy president...unless he gets the most votes.
One more thing...Rudy made more campaign appearances than Ron Paul in Iowa but fared considerably worse.
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